ksp how to make a stable plane

Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. I've been having some trouble lately in newer with respect to air flow. First off, make sure you are using the newest version of Kerbal Space Program, and it is NOT pirated, when you buy it, the devs get helped out. Getting all of this into one craft is a pretty intricate business, however. 2. Any insights? Larger ones have additional wing-mounted pods. Your, Add enough downward-pointing jets to lift the plane, as symmetrically as you can around the, Adjust the thrust limiter on the fore (or aft) hoverjets until the thrust vector lines up with the. (Yes, you personally, you lucky thing! A twin-pod design is similar to a twin-boom, except that it has a conventional tail extending from the fuselage. In principle it's simple just place your fuel symmetrically around the dry CoM, and centre your vertical thrust vector on it but how? TO achieve the easisest way to balance the fuel tanks i never put usable fuel tank in where i cant move ti easily eg. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. You can post now and register later. Similar to the fuel pump mods out there now. How to Make a Perfect Space Plane - KSP1 Tutorials - Kerbal Space All you need to do is add landing gear (one right before the cockpit, and two on the tips or middle of the wings), and you're done! Privacy Policy. Mach speed - 343 mps. Control your vector primarily with pitch, and your descent rate with throttle. Can I use the spell Immovable Object to create a castle which floats above the clouds? I had my rear wheels mounted on the tail, and it seems the taper of the tail messed up the angle of the wheels creating instability. Kerbin has some biomes that are difficult to reach any other way. And there's the ever awesome 101 from @keptin. Because of that if you for example place control surfaces at the front you can make a plane that has CoL behind CoM (like in the picture) unstable because CoL will drift forward past CoM as AoA increases (contrary to your 4th point). The solution is to house the hoverjets in a cargo bay of some kind, with the doors opening downwards. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane. Smaller wings on the cockpit can be good. Another possibility to add to the existing answers (it's a bit hard to diagnose without seeing the plane) is that your landing gear might be insufficient for your plane's mass. In that vein I drag optimized the Karmilla, and added science parts. If you have more than one engine, you can get asymmetric thrust at low speeds. After the drag was sorted out, it wasn't very hard to create a dockable SSTO version. As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. Your CoT vector will disappear. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. How to keep an airplane stable on the runway in Kerbal Space Program? In other words classic tripod. Try not to make your first airplanes longer than 3 MK1 fuselages. Body deformation can be caused by heavy parts, many parts connected together, or forces on the plane. Powered by Invision Community. Take the large delta wings and place them on the aircraft. high altitude flight :: Kerbal Space Program General Discussions Thanks for any answers! There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. This reduces the amount of trim you need to apply to get the craft level in flight. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. It uses six Mk 1 utility bay-mounted Junos for hovering. the vertical stabilizer only handles yaw? And you would need to stay hours spectating the ship, because the game doesn't simulate atmospheric drag otherwise. @italian man Great guide, and for people who would like to know the basics of plane building i will be pointing them here. Then I'd go with moving it towards more maneuvrable by moving CoL towards CoM. @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's cheesy and wouldn't solve the root problem. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Intakes are your friend when you use liquid fuel. That SAS can hold a craft stable doesn't mean it's a stable craft. Thrust is determined partly by velocity. Then this tutorial is for you. The downside is that it isn't as pretty, but it *does* top out at mach 1.8 with a humble wheesly. When your airspeed is low enough that aerodynamic control is getting sluggish. Except for the parts regarding drag and number of intakes, everything else is still very valid. The craft will lift off once generated lift + hoverjet thrust overcome its mass. You need enough intakes to keep them fed. It flames out at 25,000. You can either go with four "LY-O1 Fixed" or a tricycle of two LY-01 near the back and one "LY-05 Steerable" at the front; either is fine for now. This would certainly have to be revised once Breaking Ground drops, those parts are extremely relevant for VTOL. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. When you're close to it, INCREASE THROTTLE until your rate of descent nears zero. For the CoM / CoL relationship to get a stable-yet-maneuverable craft, I'd recommend doing the tweaks in two stages. The procedure for a vertical take-off is as follows: The procedure for a short take-off is the same, except that forward jets and hoverjets will both be ON from the start. If you have a delta wing with a slight AoA and pitch-control elevons at the back, I also find it works well to rotate the elevons back to the pure horizontal. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. Because they're fun and educational and you can. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. The most helpful thing to do would probably be to make a craft and share it so things you're doing wrong can easily be pointed out for you to fix. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Can you check what happens if you increase the tail size to pull the center of drag back? You might still be able to turn very quickly, but if you don't have enough wing you won't drag your velocity vector with you, which means you force your wings into a stall and bleed energy in a hurry (and can also lose control, depending). Nah, the stabilizer will do it. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. ps2. You need to sign in or create an account to do that. Which reverse polarity protection is better and why? Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. 2023 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? On the other hand, something with a wide wingspan but narrow wings (like the connector Cs) will pitch easily but need more oomph to roll. Kerbal Space Program, how do you disable autosave? I've found a few body plans to be especially amenable to conversion to VTOL. Good, strong control authority - instead of reducing the pitch control authority, make the plane aerodynamically stable, so that even if you do flip it, it will right itself. The hoverjets are housed in the big wing-mounted pods. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Really nice overview and some incredible looking craft! My question is really about controllability. A V/STOL atmospheric craft built for Duna can drop you on any dime, anywhere on the surface. A VTOLaircraftas discussed here is a craft that's designed to fly aerodynamically, using lift produced by lifting surfaces, but take off and land vertically. So you want to make a plane but all your contraptions explode on the runway, crash into the runway a few seconds after taking off, crash into the side of the runway, crash into the ocean after doing a tight turn or otherwise fail to do what you intended? Now, get a pair of winglets, and place them at the front of the plane to get that approximate spacing of COM . Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Thanks to this guide I did my first ever landing on the VAB helipad! To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. You want to start by attaching a Mk 0 Liquid Fuel Tank under the wings, making sure you're mirrored so it goes under both wings. hope you and others find that useful in the future! Upload or insert images from URL. Sorry if this is just too basic, it is kind of for beginners, edit: [snipped the stupid thought] i need to stop trying to post when dead tired, I like rules of thumb like these All the info you need without getting bogged down with specifics, Just a quick FYI, you say that CoL is center of thrust and CoT is center of lift; these are the wrong way around. Before you can make a successful plane, you must understand what makes a plane go in places other than the ground - the wings. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. 4. I moved the wheels from the tail to the fuel fuselage, and now she takes off like a dream! Building planes is one of the more fun things to do in Kerbal Space Program, and also leads to more science on kerbin and eventually SSTO spaceplanes. Pasted as rich text. User without create permission can create a custom object from Managed package using Custom Rest API. As you reach 100m/s, hold S to pull the stick back, and you should be in the air! What version is the Kerbal Space Program demo? There are lots of ways to make this work, but here are some designs I've used successfully: For rocket-powered hover, use Spark,Aerospike, or Vector (if you really need a lotof hover power). My Hats off to Brikoleur, as a fellow VTOL/general spaceplane [stock] enthusiast, your tips were easy to read and right on the money! And start small. If you (or SAS) turns even just a little, the engine opposite your turn will have a higher velocity than the one towards your turn. I haven't found a sure-fire solution to this, but I think I know what causes it. The main challenge for hover control is to keep the craft horizontal. That should just about do it for basic planes. Your link has been automatically embedded. Your main lift, though, should always be as closely centered on your CoM as you can manage. Eventually you either crash, or you reach a high enough speed that SAS wiggling can't cause a significant enough difference in engine speeds. I've never found them to be practical (at least on Kerbin) for anything except short flights around the KSC and flying to the island runway and back. Could a subterranean river or aquifer generate enough continuous momentum to power a waterwheel for the purpose of producing electricity? On 11/1/2018 at 10:54 AM, Brikoleur said: On 1/25/2019 at 4:03 AM, panzerknack said: This thread is quite old. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. I've always found that best way to not crash on the take off is to take off. a craft that's designed to fly aerodynamically, using lift produced by lifting surfaces. In fact, nothing will happen at all, and that's probably bad, so put an air intake on your plane anyway. Valve Corporation. Paste as plain text instead, Love it!! They'll still happen but you'll have more time to get off the ground. How do I make aircraft stable & smooth to control? You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. It's unlikely you're doing this but just in case: while on the ground use only yaw controls to change direction, don't touch the roll controls. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America). Roll is the main way to change direction in flight, and best way to crash the plane on the ground. [1] At this speed it is possible to circumnavigate Kerbin in about 29 minutes at an altitude of 40 km. - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. One point I would mention is that the more wing area you have relative to your control surfaces, the less angle of attack you can generate. Usually, having one or two medium-sized intakes will more than suffice on a regular plane. Your plane will be slow and have limited range, or you'll have to make it a lot bigger to brute-force your way around that limitation. RCS will get the job done nicely, and looks cool to boot. Then you want to put something called a "Small Circular Intake" on the front of the tank, and a "J-20 Juno" engine on the back of the tank. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. Drive gently off the runway and use the huge grassy field to take off, without care in the world about the plane veering to a side. Thank you and happy landings. If it doesn't, he can just make the stabilizer bigger; instead of turning down control authority, just add more fixed wing. Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. Clear editor. +1 for "If that all fails, you may try building your plane lighter and with mightier (or just more) engines, so it just doesn't have the time to start misbehaving on the runway before you bring it up in the air." do you put them vertically or are they at an angle to the ground? Keep pitching up as you approach stall speed. NEVER go forwards, causing the aircraft to crash itself. Congratulations! Somebody figured out how to make a stable orbit inside of the - Reddit When braking most of the power should be on the rear, or you may see Kerbin up close. Then: I hope you've found this short tutorial useful. If the CoM is in the back, then it will ALWAYS not be able to get out of a stall, flatspin all the time, and will be an all around horrible plane. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. This item will only be visible in searches to you, your friends, and admins. Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Screenshot of the Week #89 [Submissions Closed, Vote Now!]. You would need a lot of orbits at 69 km to come down into the ground. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device. You should have something called an "Elevon 1"; this will be the moving part for your wings. The gear of the craft can also easily be overlooked, but can make the difference between flying masterpiece and soon-to-be-scraps. It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. And one other, more remote possibility to check: Where is your plane's center of drag? In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. The Cyclone uses Aerospikes for propulsion. LTTP but anyway: the question is, practical for what? Some more advanced tips you can use in the guide: In stock (no FAR) game to have a stable plane its also important to place control surfaces behind the wings, since their lift increases faster with AoA. This tutorial was created primarily based on a Reddit post by the incredibly helpful u/AnArgonianSpellsword. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. The CoL (Center of Lift) is a blue ball. Hi @Brikoleur, nice work! You're one of the few I've read that recognized the potential of Junos in vtol vs the more popular panthers or using rotating clamp-o-tron assemblies- bigger engines have the huge design downside of shifting COM above fuselage longitudinal axis, which makes rocket placement difficult for SSTOs. It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). Such a simple and basic tip, but so unknown throughout KSP. The twin-boom design is one of my favourites, largely because it looks cool. This guide also applies to STOL (Short Take-Off and Landing) aircraft which do their thing using downward-pointing jets or rockets, because they're pretty much the same thing. (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://. A slight "inwards" tilt on your wings (5 degrees or less) will improve stability hugely and will cause your plane to slowly correct itself in flight, also if you're using large control surfaces at high speeds then the result is obvious. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). Regular HTOL aircraft can afford to be a bit sloppy with this because aerodynamic forces will effectively obliterate moderate shifts in CoM -- if your plane gets a bit more tail-happy as the tanks drain it's no problem, as long as your CoM stays ahead of your CoL. Mostly anyway. I would really suggest this guide for beginners trying to get into the world of planes in Kerbal Space Program. By The BAK Cyclone, delivering a station module to Duna. You can horse hundreds of tonnes, up and down both, with the standard canard pieces. Lift, the canard button), and finally CoT (Center of Thrust, the thruster button) 2. It is certainly possible to make VTOLs that can circumnavigate the planet. KSP should be handing out engineering degrees :). Display as a link instead, Now for wings, the "Wing Connector Type B" is the largest you have so far; connect a set of those where the centre of mass is. First thing you're going to want to do in the SPH is turn on your centre of mass indicator (this is the point that the plane will rotate around when rolling, pitching, or yawing) and your centre of lift indicator (the Aerodynamic Overlay). So basic, anyone can do it. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. These should be in the bottom left next to the display of the cost of the aircraft. An aircraft without control surfaces is like a rocket without RCS or reaction wheels - it will hardly turn and will be equally hard to control (perhaps even impossible!). Stunt planes tend to go for the latter layout and use powerful ailerons, because getting more roll authority is easier than getting more pitch and causes much fewer knock-on effects. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. Reaction wheels will balance smaller craft just fine, but are probably insufficient for bigger ones. This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. 3. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! Intakes aren't something usually causing planes to fail, however need some thought. I've covered all my bases, as far as I can tell: It seems if I turn off SAS, I can prevent the oscillation from starting as it's initiated by some control input, whether from me or SAS, but then the plane veers off the runway until it hits something. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Hovering is expensive but you don't really need all that many seconds of hover either for take-off or for landing. Edit: After reading it again, it just seems to have a bit too many errors. This guide will show how to make simple-ish planes and other aerodynamic tips. Building planes is one of the more fun things to do in Kerbal Space Program, and also leads to more science on kerbin and eventually SSTO spaceplanes. The first challenge you're likely to hit is choice of hoverjet. I'm finding it quite surprising you didn't manage to get the plane to fly yet. The same applies to Laythe, although it has gentler topography. Here's how you go about building a VTOL under these constraints. Always look at your aircraft from a 90* angle on the side. First, @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's, Hahaha absolutely right, but distinctly less satisfying. This one is balanced with reaction wheels. 4. The BAK Karmilla. Plane veering off course is not uncommon but uneven fuel draw can exacerbate it a lot. Guest, You may need to change control authority to a negative value if they bend "the wrong way". They have in common that it's easy to tweak the balance by moving things around, rather than having to add or remove pieces. The CoT (Center of Thrust) is purple. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. This thread is quite old. However, don't put any fuel tanks on it yet, and empty any fuel-containing parts that you are using. The writing is a bit disjointed, because it's been edited and restructured a few times andI'm not a native english speaker. One of the most finicky problems with VTOL craft is managing centre of mass. SAS sees this and turns the other way, which just causes the same problem in the other direction. And start small. Always look at your aircraft from a 90* angle on the side. Another pointer is to make your wings larger with the same amount of control surface. 19000m. Which was the first Sci-Fi story to predict obnoxious "robo calls"? Steam Community :: Guide :: Basic Planes Guide Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Whether VTOL craft arepracticalor efficientcompared to other solutions is a different matter -- and to be perfectly honest, I'm inclined to think not really. Yes! If you placed the main wings at the centre of mass and then added the smaller wings behind, this should be correct already. Your airspeed will also fall. The CoG shouldn't be TOO far in front of the CoL, though. there aren't any aerodynamics when you are a kraken scientist like me. 3. With a decent lever arm to work with you can be both perfectly stable in level flight and very agile in pitch and yaw controls. You can pick the main cockpit and rotate the whole craft with it in SPH to see where your CoL will drift. You don'thave touse their fuel capacity you might want to leave them dry if they're not symmetrical to the CoM. Also there it's important to place small landing gear after setting up CoL to CoM relation since it's mass is calculated in CoM in SPH/VAB but not counted in flight. Also, make sure you read this slowly, some of this stuff may be confusing, but, if you read carefully, I will help you out with what everything means. So the ones that go straight up and down can only be straight up and down, no angling left, right, backwards or forwards such as when you place the little wheel on the angled body of the cockpit part. Kerbal Space Program: Propeller Plane Tutorial - YouTube So thanks for the pointers - I'll take a look (and try to cure my prejudice re canards). The fastest known plane demonstrated, in version 0.23, a top speed of about 2377 m/s relative to Kerbin's surface just short of Mach 7. Rockets are much less efficient than air-breathers, so it needs to be much bigger than a Kerbin-bound craft performing the same mission! The two engines have been mounted every imaginable way with the same result: Over the wings, on the fuselage, on girder segments, on the wingtips, etc. Have fun with your S/VTOL craft and don't forget there are more ways to do them as well, including helicopter-like things that don't fly aerodynamically at all. 2 will usually do nicely, but 3 or 4 are usually better (but of course heavier, and this tutorial assumes you use 2). Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. Next you need landing gear. Cookie Notice You can "smooth" controls by toggling capslock on your keyboard, the control indicators in the bottom left will turn blue from orange and they are instance dependant (if you revert your flight you'll have to toggle capslock again). Is there any way to reliably fix this? (KSP 1.9.1) Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Absolute Beginner's Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKgGHrNZnz2ca8NVuyj7eHXc Craft File - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cfFBMm4EBhDh8mQ2UuOn9f5DL6jBgM05/view?usp=drivesdk0:00 - Introduction1:42 - Planning our Science Collection3:36 - Starting our Build4:49 - Changing Symmetry Mode6:40 - Adding Fuel8:07 - Adding Jet Engines \u0026 Air Intakes9:10 - Adding Wings \u0026 Elevons10:55 - Adding a Tail12:03 - Understanding Center of Lift16:24 - Understanding Control Surfaces18:31 - Adding Landing Gear22:25 - Summary They sometimes coincide with elevators. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Once you got a hang of these, try bigger stuff. Also stock fuel priority is in 1.2, allowing very stable CoM builds. For your first flight, it may be easiest to ignore yaw altogether and just maneuver by rolling slightly and pitching. The more intakes added, the higher a plane can go before a flame-out, which makes multiple intakes a must on SSTO spaceplanes. The parts regarding landing gear placement is especially relevant in 1.1.x. When off the ground at a sufficient altitude to clear obstacles, main jets ON, When at sufficient speed for aerodynamic flight, hoverjets OFF, pods CLOSED, gear UP. In a twin-boom design, you have one hoverjet at the nose, and one in each of the booms. Also, excessive use of the rudder usually causes the plane to spin out of control and crash. The CoL should be in the center or just behind the CoM. Also, I would like to know how I can tweak my aircraft to make them smooth at the controls. Then go into the move part thing with the "2" key in the editor, remove the degree setting, and then drag them apart manually and position parts with fine tuning that way. The CoL should be behind the CoM on a horizontal angle, unless you're building a shuttle. Touch down, CUT throttle, CUT engines, BRAKES ON. First off, make whatever you want, just, start off making sense. You should talk about the rocket engine's dV (approx., since not all users use Mechjeb or any other mod capable of showing dV for a given engine and tank).

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